Transcript van CNN-interview met Dr. Hansen:
M. O'BRIEN: It's a beautiful morning here in New York City. A little warmer than we'd like it to be.
A question about science. Facts are facts, but when good science meets a political reality, a political agenda, what happens?
A gag order, or so it is alleged, by a leading climate scientist at NASA. He says the Bush administration is trying to silence him because he is sounding alarm bells about the impact of climate change, global warming.
James Hansen is director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
He joins us here this morning.
Dr. Hansen, good to have you with us.
JAMES HANSEN, NASA'S GODDARD INSTITUTE FOR SPACE STUDIES: Hi.
Good to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: Tell us what you said, first of all, scientifically.
HANSEN: Scientifically I said we're getting very close to a tipping point in our climate system. If we continue along a business as usual path with greenhouse gases increasing faster and faster, then it's going to become impossible to avoid losing the Arctic, for example. Already the sea ice there is reduced 25 percent in the summer.
Within a few decades, we may lose the sea ice there and, therefore, the ability for wildlife like polar bears, seals, reindeer, to survive.
M. O'BRIEN: Let's take a look at a couple of animations. These come from some of the models which have been put together to try to project global warming.
The first one I want to show you shows what happened since about 1870 to present and then beyond. And, as you can see, blue is cooler. And as you move along here, the red portions are the places that become warmer.
Projecting outward, as you see, we get into modern time now. This is the industrial age. And as you can see, over the industrial countries, you've got these splotches of red. And as time goes on, it becomes kind of a big red blob over this entire globe of ours.
At this point, some would suggest it's so far gone it cannot be stopped.
HANSEN: No, I -- that's the point. It's not too late to stop and avoid the worst consequences. But we would need to get on the scenario in which we slow down the rate of growth of greenhouse gases, get that to flatten out. And before the middle of the century, we're going to have to be producing less and less carbon dioxide than we are now. M. O'BRIEN: And that's not the way we're going right now?
HANSEN: That's not the way we're going now.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you have been told to be careful about what you say.
Why don't you explain what you heard from public affairs people at NASA in particular about the comments you made?
HANSEN: Well, they were very unhappy about my presentation in December at the American Geophysical Union.
M. O'BRIEN: Why?
HANSEN: Well, I think because I'm connecting the dots, all the way from emissions to the future consequences and it's -- and it has -- and I look at alternative scenarios, if we continue on this path or if we take other paths. And that is getting too close to policy, I guess.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, but there really isn't much of a scientific debate anymore. So when you talk among scientific peers, there is tremendous agreement that global warming is real and it is hastened by human action or inaction.
HANSEN: Right.
M. O'BRIEN: So really what this is, is about politics, isn't it?
HANSEN: Well, yes. I think there's a big issue here, and that is the fact that the agencies, the public affairs offices at the agencies are staffed by political appointees. And that is affecting the ability to communicate with the public. So, for example -- and it's not just true in NASA.
In NOAH, for example, the hurricanes last summer, there becomes an agency perspective rather -- and you're not free to speak your own ideas. You have to follow that perspective.
M. O'BRIEN: So, in other words, if a scientist at NOAH said these storms are stronger, perhaps by virtue of the fact that the climate is changing, global warming...
HANSEN: Exactly.
M. O'BRIEN: ... the administration will say no, you can't say that.
HANSEN: Yes (ph).
M. O'BRIEN: Let me just -- I want to inject this so we have the other side here, so to speak.
Dean Acosta, who is NASA's top public affairs official, who is a political appointee, by the way, he says this: "NASA is committed to open and full communications. Our policy, which is similar to that of any other federal agency, corporation or news organization, is that any NASA employee speaking on the record, issuing a press release or posting information on our Web site must coordinate such activities with the Office of Public Affairs, no exceptions."
Now, I've covered NASA for years. Whenever you book an interview, you have to go through public affairs. That's not anything, I suppose that is out of the ordinary.
What is different now, though, do you think?
HANSEN: Well, for example, National Public Radio in Boston wanted me to do an interview. And they were told no, they needed to do the interview with someone at NASA headquarters. And then the interview didn't occur, because they wanted to speak to the scientists, not somebody at NASA headquarters.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
So sum it up here.
Do you think that there continues to be pressure from the Bush administration not to say what scientists fully believe here about global warming?
HANSEN: Well, I think that public affairs offices have probably, for a long time, been used by whatever party is in power. But it's become much more intense in the current administration.
M. O'BRIEN: James Hansen, who is one of the leading scientists on climate change. He works for NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center -- Goddard's Institute for Space Studies, I should say, more accurately.
Thank you for being with us.
HANSEN: Thanks.
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